New Member question concerning trim tabs

[Roy & Dixie]

I plan to purchase a 1999 C-Dory 22ft with a 1999 80hp, 4-stroke Yahama engine. I tested the boat yesterday and came away with 2 concerns: 1) The boat squats badly at the stern and the bow rides high at mid range speeds. Would trim tabs improve this condition on this boat? I saw a picture on another C-Dory on Boat Trader with trim tabs installed. 2) The 1999 engine only has 350 hr and runs smoothly. When was the 80hp, 4-stroke engine introduced and is it as reliable as the newer fuel injected 80hp engines? Are there any major differences in the design?

[JamesTXSD]

Hello Roy and Dixie,

I will offer an opinion - yes, the trim tabs will make a difference. Our boat is a CD-25, and the trim tabs make a significant difference for comfort and being able to stay on plane at mid-cruise speeds. A foil on the engine will also make a difference.

No doubt, the price of the boat you are looking at reflects the engine... that is a 14 year old engine. No reason it won't last for a lot more years, but it is 14 year old technology. I prefer fuel injected over carburetor - easier starting, less fuss if you run at different elevations, more fuel efficient, less hassle due to ethanol. When I ordered my boat, I considered twin 90s instead of a bigger single, but the 90s at the time were not available with fuel injection.

That said, I would certainly not reject the boat because the engine isn't fuel injected. Assuming the price is in line with the age of the boat, buy it, run it, enjoy it. Down the road when the time comes to repower, go with something with fuel injection.

There are plenty of Yamahas out there, but most C-Dorys from that era were rigged by the dealer, so the motor choice was dealer dependent. 80 hp is adequate on a 22. The trim issue is an easy upgrade.

Good luck with your decisions.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

[mngrant]

If you haven't done so, research what the price of the new engine is before buying. The cost might be a surprise.

I prefer a single with a kicker. Also consider installing the trim tabs before a kicker. Makes the trim tab install easier.

[Yellowstone]

I echo Jim B's comments. Have installed tabs on two 22' C-Dorys. If you get that 1999 model (hope you do) be aware that you have lucked out because that was the last year the proper lids were made for the lazerettes and the construction of that generation of Dorys IMO was superior.
Yellowstone

[Sunbeam]

My boat came with a Yamaha F80 (2002 vintage). Like with many engines, there was also an F100 that was the "same" engine, with the de-tuning (or whatever) to make one 80hp and one 100hp. I believe in 2003 they re-rated them and made them the 75 and 90 (don't think they really changed anything though), and then in 2005 Yamaha went to fuel injection, keeping the 75 and 90 designations. There was a C-Dory dealer in Crystal River, Florida, back in the day who seemed to put Yamahas on most (all?) of the boats, mostly F80's.

I really wanted twins, and fuel injection, when I was boat shopping. But then (what is now) my boat was just in such great, "like new" shape, and with only 50 hours, that I bought it and just figured I'd probably re-power. I considered a re-powering fund as part of the purchase price. Just after I bought it, I took it in to a Yamaha dealer for an inspection and some carburetor work (the boat had sat with fuel in the carbs after the owner died), pretty much intending to trade in the engine on a new one.

They almost laughed at me (in a nice way) and said "this engine is perfectly good and would last you for many, many years; there's not a thing wrong with it (except the carbs having been left with fuel in them). I was "trying" to buy a new engine from them, but they almost insisted that I at least try my engine before they sold me a new one (again, they would have sold me one - it's not that they were jerks - but they were just giving me their best advice first).

I still wasn't convinced, but figured "okay, I'll try it just to say I did, but then I'll be back!" Now, I've been in other modes and so I don't have a lot of hours on the engine to give you a personal report, but I did have one experience this fall that confirmed that indeed, at least trying it is the right thing: I went to the September Lake Powell get-together and met up with the trip leader, Chris, on his 22 named Rana Verde. She's a lovely boat, and I knew from reading this forum that he'd taken her on plenty of ambitious trips : Up to Alaska, all over Powell, etc. etc. Many, many hours and years. He doesn't even run a kicker, just the main. His engine? A carbureted Yamaha 75 (2003 I believe). I got to take a spin on Rana Verde and really didn't see anything to complain about (my boat should be so slick!). Chris said in all those years and miles he's had one problem (an electrical part... rectifier?) and he was able to limp to port before making repairs, at which time he found there was an improved, more robust version of the part and mounted that. No issues since. That's a lot of miles and without even a secondary engine.

So, anyway, would I factor an older, carbureted engine into the price of the boat? Yes, definitely. Would I choose a fuel-injected engine if I could just "pick one" and the two were laid out in front of me and everything else was equal? Yes again. But if the price and the rest of the boat are commensurate with where you feel they should be, and you like it.... I would obviously choose it (because I did!). My feeling was that the boat being so clean and "like new" overall would be a lot harder to replicate than changing engines (if I did).

A note on the trim tabs: Funny, but I'm installing a set of Bennett M-120's on my boat even as we speak (well, when I'm not on the computer ). I knew I would want them, but I actually considered it to be a bit of a bonus that they were not already installed. I had read enough (and have now confirmed it) to know that 99.9% of installations of hardware into the core would not be made in a way that I consider to be proper. That is, either the core would not be closed out or sealed, or holes would not be necessary anymore (not trim tabs but other hardware). I knew that for myself, in order to be comfortable with it, I'd have to "uninstall" trim tabs and re-do the installation if a boat came with them, and I'd much rather just install a brand new pair (what I'm doing now). My boat was kept indoors and out of the water, so I knew I'd be "starting fresh" (plus I checked it over for moisture anyway).

So, the upshot is that I don't know enough about "your" boat to say anything specific about it, but I figured I'd give you my thoughts based on a similar purchase option.

Sunbeam

[Sunbeam]

An addendum as I understand it:

The C-Dory 22's were originally designed when the typical gear of the day would have resulted in a lighter load for the transom area.

Then: A 70 hp 2-stroke = ~250 lbs.
Maybe a kicker, say 6hp 2-stroke = ~60 lbs.
36 gallons of fuel (two 18 gal. tanks) = 223 lbs.

Total weight of above, including kicker = 533 lbs.
Without kicker = 473 lbs.

Now: A 90 hp 4-stroke (usually) = ~370 - 416 lbs.
Average 4-stroke, 8-10 hp kicker = ~100 lbs.
46-50 gallons of fuel = 285 - 310 lbs.

Total weight of above, using all the lower figures = ~750 lbs.
Without kicker and lower figures for the rest = 655 lbs.
Using the larger figures = 826 lbs.

In addition to the above, people have probably added larger batteries, and etc. This is like having one or two people standing right at the transom. From what I can tell, the after sections of the C-Dory 22 are relatively "slim" compared to how one would re-design the same boat for today's heavier gear (compare the Venture 23 and the Marinaut 215). That's not to say the 22 is not a great boat (I chose one for myself), but only that with the current gear it seems that trim tabs are more of a "must have" in order to help things out. (I'm sure there are 22's who run without them though, hence the quotes around must have.)

This is one reason that Yamaha 70 keeps intriguing me; it would be fun to run two 22's side by side with that lighter engine (~ 250 lbs. -- more like what was around when the 22 was designed, weight-wise) and a 90-plus-kicker or twins, just to experience the differences in direct comparison (twin Honda 40's or 50's are around 430 lbs. for the pair).

Sunbeam

[Roy & Dixie]

I want to thank each of you for your answers to my questions. I thought it might take waiting quiet a while for any response, but I did not need to wait long for exactly the info I was interest in.

Bennett trim tabs has a good presentation on the internet, which sold me on their brand, but they had no info concerning their product on a C-Dory. I feel I can install them myself. I've heard of dealer installation that was totally wrong. And I will check on a foil mounted on the engine.

I presently have a 1994 poontoon boat with a 1994 40hp yahama 2-stroke, 2 cyl engine that has been very reliable for almost 20 yr. Only problem, ever, was need to remove the 2 carbs and soak in carb cleaner after I let the boat sit for 3-4 yr. Regular use and fuel treatment has solved any further problems.

If we close a deal on the C-Dory we will be regular contributers to this forum. Thanks again.

Reason for not using the poontoon boat for so long was the fact that my wife and I were captains on a 200ft, 100 passenger cruise ship that runs 14 day trips throughout the Caribbean, Great Lakes, Bahamas, and the East Coast ICW. We were aboard 8mo/yr, 24-7, and also owned a 37ft trawler, docked in Daytona Beach, FL. We are now retired, have sold the trawler, and want a boat we can trailer, store at home (we have 4 acres on which our home is built) and go back to simple, basic cruising. That trawler had as many systems to maintain as did the cruise ship. It's overhead costs was depressing.

Thanks again for all the info. If we close a deal on the C-Dory we will be regular users of this forum.

[potter water]

Most of us, I think, have followed the "upside down" smile curve in our boating. I started with 12 feet, then on to 16 feet, then on to 19 feet, then on to 22 feet, then on to 27 feet, then on to 32 feet, then down to 26 feet, then down to 23.5 feet, then down to 19 feet, and back up to the 22 Dory. It is in my sweet spot for trailerable, storable, and adventures galore.

I never got to 200 feet though. But now you have me thinking.......hmmmm.

[Sea Wolf]