Wallas Redux

[journey on]

OK, Here's my take on the Wallis 95 stove. We bought Journey On in '05 and it came with said stove, for about $2000. Judy loved it at first sight, since she'd spent a summer in Alaska with no heat. It worked well for 5 summers, though it's not the perfect stove/heater. Note that this is the model 95, not the 85. For the conclusions, skip to the Conclusions, unless you're Pat Anderson, who'll want to read the whole sorrowful story.

To summarize, we used it during the summer from '05 to '11 during our cruises. It started, gave heat and shut down for a total period of operation of 18 mos. I used either expensive kerosene or even more expensive Kleen Heat. Never diesel. Judy started it on the high setting and shut it down on high. The heater option only blows air across the cabin, so we got an Ecco Fan, which can blow air towards the V-berth, though neither fan got any air into the V-berth.

When we were at a dock, we used electric heat so the Wallis was rarely running all night. For the morning cup of coffee, Judy got a Korean butane stove, since the Wallis is slow to start and shut down. My opinion is that the Wallis stove was used lightly for those 6 years and treated nicely.

Suddenly last summer ('11) the heater blower fan didn't start, and by golly we we weren't at a dock and it was cold. So a call to Scan Marine and a nice conversation with Mike led us to the failed blower switch, with a recommendation to drop off the stove for cleaning and a new switch. We didn't drop off the stove on the trip south for various reasons and that simple act led to the comments provided below.

Conclusions

I'm putting my conclusions here so that they'll get read.

First, the Wallas Model 95D is a crappy design as far as reliability and service go, and the detail is below in The Story..

Second, it's what we have and here's how to deal with that.
-----I would use filtered kerosene and/or Kleen Heat. They are clean fuels that doesn't gell or get bugs. We have only used that and our stove is squeaky clean. Always start/stop the stove on “High.”
-----Get a Korean stove (<$20) which runs on butane cylinders ($2) for when the Wallas dies, and it may never die.
-----Perform no service cleaning, etc on the Wallas, that's just looking for trouble.
-----I would wait until it quits working and then send it back to Scan Marine.
---------------Learn what's wrong and get an estimate and then either:
-------------------pay the money and pray
-------------------or, let them keep the stove, install a Webast/Espar forced air heater and a propane stove.

The Webasto probably costs $1200, and the propane stove could be done for $800 using a 2 gal outside tank. Installation is up to you. Either way, it's cheaper than a new Wallas, and you have forced air heating and a easy to use stove.

Note that Scan Marine feels that all of these problems have been solved with the Model 85. I don't know, that's not what we have.

The Story

Now, let it be said here that my conversations and dealings with Scan Marine have always been courteous and helpful. Remember, they're just dealing with what they sold, and they're decent people. I may have lost it a time or two, but then they're selling, I'm buying/fixing/replacing.

When we got home (SoCal) I pulled the stove out, removed the heater blower switch mother board and started down the slippery slope of maintaining the Model 95 Wallas stove. Scan Marine pointed out that not only does the stove need cleaning, but several parts need replacement on a regular basis. Being a bold sort, I thought “I can do that, and learn something.” And I did.

So what did I learn? First the Wallas Model 95 is a terrible design from a reliability and maintenance standpoint. And second, don't work on that thing yourself, since there are a lot of unique procedures that you learn about the hard way. Scan Marine has learned and I'll bet it was the hard way, through a variety of stoves. Let us go through the list of design issues on the Model 95.

First the heater blower switch. That switch is on a motherboard which get inundated with water, soap and grease, so the motherboard corrodes. The switch is OK, just not connected to anything. And obviously it corroded in <20 mos of use, so it's a replaceable item. For $125.

Second, Scan marine says that there are replaceable maintenance items as follows: the igniter, the burner mat and the stove blower motor. They also said that's stamped on every owners manual. Couldn't find it on mine, but OK. Ordered those parts, read the C-Brat document on changing the stuff and went to work.

Disassembled the burner to change out the parts and clean it. The burner looked great, no cleaning needed. Fuel supply tube clean as a whistle, kerosene is a great clean fuel. Replaced the igniter and mat (cut your own mat from fiberglass cloth, save money).

Moved on to the motor replacement. That didn't go so well. First, that motor is buried in the innards of the stove. You remove everything to get to it. Second, the Model 95 has 3 motherboards, all plugged together with various hard to remove plugs. You need to remove 2 of them. And it all needs to be removed. And third, that motor is a cheap $3 part from Mubuchi/Japan, which is a bad part to bury in a stove. And fourth, the position of the fan on the motor shaft is critical and must be checked with the stove in operating position.

So I replaced the motor, reassembled the stove, installed it and turned it on. Got a rattling noise from the fan as soon as the stove got hot. Talked to Mike/Scan, pulled the stove, reset the fan, reassembled the stove, replaced it into the boat, still got the noise. Tried adjusting the fan on the shaft while the stove was still in the boat started it, the fan was nosier, shut down the stove, took a long time, pulled the power plug and there was my MAJOR mistake: never, never, never pull the power plug on a Wallas stove while the red light is on. Turns out another design flaw is that the Model 95 electronics do not have a reset to an initial state. Talked to Mike/Scan again, tried his fix, didn't work.

Finally sent the stove back to Scan marine and got it back for $125 plus shipping. Installed it, the noise appeared when the stove got hot, shut the stove down, restarted it and it now appears to be working. We'll try it this summer.

Please read my conclusions above.

Boris

[localboy]

Ugh..... More bad experiences w/ the Wallas.

[journey on]

I look at my post a little differently. It's addressed to those who own a Model 95 and I hope it contains good advice as to what to expect and how to deal with it.

Would I buy a Wallas 95? Not with what I know now, but then they don't sell 95's anymore. We got 5 years of service from it, so that's good. It's fixed now and hopefully we get 5 more years out of it. Since you own a '07 C-Dory, if you have a Wallas, it's a Model 85?

I tried to give comments on good fuel, what can happen and why to go back to Scan. Yes I bitched, but I just tried to define the problems that exist, with a minimum of complaint.

I look at my experience as I paid Wallas to learn how to design a good stove. We can only hope.

Boris

[Hunkydory]

Boris, good info & I took it as you meant it. Only disagreement I have is fuel use. In the past I only used Kleen heat, but now feel the ultra low sulfer diesel to be fine and would consider among the other choices a new Wallas 85 when the 95 which is 12 years old finally cost to much to keep going.

Jay

[Pat Anderson]

Well, no additional comment required from this quarter...

[mdoug]

Bought my CD22 in 2006 with Wallas Stove. So far, so good! We use it in early spring and late autumn as a heater only. Also run only filtered kero, start/stop on high setting, and never turn off master battery switch while the fan is still running.

[20dauntless]

In my experience the Wallas has been the LEAST reliable piece of equipment aboard my boat. I have the 85DU and it failed after 3 and a half years and only 298 hours of use. Of course, it failed in January while I was at Sucia Island, in a gale.

Scan Marine was helpful but couldn't give me a definitive reason why the stove was completely sooted up after only 298 hours. Their best guesses were that it either didn't get enough combustion air or wind "blew out" the flame too often.

I would NOT buy another Wallas. It is not a great stove or a great heater, and for the money that the Wallas costs, you could have both a great heater (Webasto, Espar) and a better stove. To be honest, I think C-Dory (or C-Dory buyers, really) would be better off getting rid of the Wallas option entirely and instead installing dedicated forced air heaters and alcohol, electric, or propane cooktops based on buyer preference.

The only things preventing me from selling the Wallas and getting a separate furnace and cooktop installed are the cost and doubt as to whether a Webasto or Espar furnace is really more reliable than the Wallas. All of these diesel heaters have owners who tell reliability horror stories, and I'd hate to spend thousands of dollars to swap out heating and cooking systems and still have reliability issues with the heat.

[Chester]

[berryst]

Seems there good Wallas and bad Wallas stoves

They seem like they would be hard to beat when they are good Wallas.

I am going the different road. I bought a Remotron. The last one I bought performed 30 years without a hiccup. Then I saw a brand new one and bought that one. (it is in the original box in plastic....but 30 years old...new old stock) It will be installed under the gunwale out side. Yes it is propane. I love propane. It puts out 326F heat. I know the horror stories about propane...see kaboom link here. I however, think it is safe. The actual propane is outside only the heat is blown into the cabin. Hot and dry. The propane also operates the BBQ. The BBQ is outside where it belongs.

I am sorry to hear about your bad Wallas. The world is not as fun when your cold. fishing knots are hard to tie when the fingers are blue. With all the bad press bout propane you will probably not go there....but it something to consider ...I did.
Chris

[Captains Cat]

I've had two TomCats, both 2006 model year. One hull #16 and one hull #39. The earlier one had a 95 on it and the later one an 85. So at some point, they switched models. Both, little used, have performed whenever I needed them. Always used KleenHeat but never used over a tank full total on either in the time I've owned them (don't use the boat much in cold weather and use the grill for cooking in the summer, except for coffee). I always have the engines running (or hooked up to shore power) when starting them, always started them on high and set it on high when shutting down.

Whether this is the key, or not, don't know but it has worked for me.

Charlie

[johnrmarshall22]

Just out fishing last night with my wife, she never, never, would have been with me if we did not have heat. Yes, it does get cold on the SF Bay at night! We've used our boat a lot since we purchased last June - granted not much of a long term test. We figured out the battery needs to be tip/ top full, or engine running, our 85 model has been flawless. I suspect there was maybe less than 200 hours on the unit when we got it. So far I am happy with it but would I have paid $2000 for it?... probably not, there are just too many good options out there. As a range top the only complaint is time to get hot, once hot the Wallas works great. I have a JetBoil system that heats over a pint in about 2 minutes! The combination works well for us, so far...

BTW:Fish caught 0, Price of bait $6.00, cost of boat fuel $5.00!, cost of boat 40K, time with my wife on the water... priceless.

[Moxieabs]

My Wallas 95D from 2003 has never given a moments trouble and I have started it in the AM on a battery that was used to run it part of the night for heat along with lights and CPAP. It has never failed to start and I never need to have the motor running to start it. Always on high to start and to shut down. It is a problem if power is cut prior to it's normal shut down routine. I would gladly purchase another Wallas product in the future. Boating in Maine requires reliable heat.

[breausaw]

In addition to the Wallas I'll be installing an Espar this year. The plan is to have a two duct system; one with a diverter so it can be used for defrost or v-birth heat, the other duct dedicated to cabin heat. For fuel I plan on dropping an additional line into the Wallas jug; an Espar tech actually suggested this.
Unlike some, I really like the Wallas for cooking and the flat surface is so stable.
If one of these heaters craps out the other can take up the slack, I have a single burner unleaded gas Colman for backup cooking.

[macmac]

- The Wallas 85D and 95D products are designed for burning diesel and diesel is the right fuel to use (#2 or #1). The Wallas 800 is a kerosene fired device and it should burn kerosene.

- When any major overhaul of a Wallas device is performed, the final test before we ship it out is to use an exhaust gas analyzer to determine the exhaust content. We then tune the operation of the unit to match factory specs for exhaust gas. If this step is not performed, the servicing person can only guess at what the correct fuel to air ratio is.

- Not all issues with these devices are based on running. Not running them for long periods of time can make them hard to start. If possible, start your Wallas every couple months, bring it to temperature and then shut it down.

- Please contact our office with questions about what needs to happen to your device. We will need to know the model of product you are inquiring about, so try to have that on hand, and if possible, the serial number.

- If you are having a problem, it can be most helpful to get a call from the boat when you can run the device for us and report what you are seeing. You can cal M-F, 9-5, PDT at 1-888-606-6665. You can also e-mail us at service@scanmarineusa.com.

Thanks


Doug at Scan Marine

[Golerud]

We recently purchased a 2006 23' Cape Cruiser which has the Wallas 800 cooker. The Wallas had never been fired up prior to our purchase. I have been following the C-Brat site for quite a long time and from what I've read, Kleen Heat seemed to be the most recommended fuel. Since I didn'd want to waste time reading the instuctions, I purchased some Kleen heat, partially filled the tank and attempted to fire the Wallas. NOTHING Happened. I then got out the instructions and it says to use "Kerosene (use 100& mineral spirits)" and on the last page of instructions there is an image of an Ace Hardware can of 100% mineral spirts paint thinner. Off to home depot and purchased a can of 100% mineral spirits paint thinner. Came home, emptied the Kleen Heat, added paint thinner and fired up the stove and within a few moments I had heat.

After all of the preceeding, my question: Does anyone else use paint thinner to run their Wallas?

Gary