Whale info

[starcrafttom]

I have been looking at this sight and the emails that I get from this site for a few months now. It has been helpful and fun to read every day. I was suprised by the amount of whale activitie in our area and off the coast. One day I read that 60 whales where headed down the coast of oreagon and headed to california. That must be a sight to see. Heres the main address http://www.orcanetwork.org/ and if you go to "join sighting list" you will get a daily report of whales , dolphins, seals, and who knows what else. The site is a little hard on boaters, but some of them deserve it. While watching whales off of cypress last week several fast fishing boats motored right over the pod at full speed. They just did not see them. You have to figure out that 10 zodiacs full of people stopped in the channel are looking at something. I have also learned that the canadian whale watching boats are using channel 80 on the vhf to tell each other where the whales are. Dont ask them or they will all switch channels , just lesson and you will hear all you need to know. I hope this helps some of you find and enjoy the whales. greys are off lanlgy and the transints are still in the hood canal. j-pod is around the islands some where, have fun.

[Luna C]

Thanks Tom!

[Pat Anderson]

Cool, I signed us up! We only saw whales once, when we were all out looking for them off the west coast of San Juan at last year's Blakely event. Will also dual monitor ch 80 when out cruising now! Thanks, Tom!

[starcrafttom]

your both welcome. I really love the whales. pat you said some where else that you are having a hard time getting shots because of your slow digital camera . If your camera has a three shot mode that may help. It will take three shots back to back really fast. my camera ( i just learned) with take repeated shots for as long as i hold down the button. Wish I knew that sooner. I also has movie mode. My main problem is the grainy pic on zoom. If I set the camera to the highest resolution then I only get 5 pics at full zoom. but anything below that and I get 20 grainy pics. I will have to go get the bigger card. They should be forced to sell the camera with the biggest card, at gun point if need be. Iam tried of spending money on something only to have to spend more money to get it to work right.

[CheckRaise]

I love observing the whales, too, but I have real mixed feelings about this thread. The engine noise of power-boats is just deafening to whales, who of course rely upon sound the way we rely upon sight. I worry that posting this information on a dedicated powerboating site just turns them into a casual boating destination. That would be terrible for the whales.

That said, remember to stay 1000 yards away and let them come to you. Also, when in their vicinity, I always keep my engines at low RPMs (to reduce noise), and when I spot them, kill my engines and depth sounder.

[starcrafttom]

I always kill the engines and drift. That way they come to me. as far as posting on a motor boating site. I got a boat to do many things and one of those is to see whales. I do not like that every one thinks that if I own a motor I will do the wrong thing. Paddling up to close to whales in kayaks is just as bad as motoring up to them. When we saw the whales a few weeks ago after Lopez they swam under and around a very large tug and barge. They all seemed to be just fine afterwards. There are those in Washington that believe that the only "right way " to view whales is "shore based" many of them post on the site I listed. They endlessly complain if they see a whale and boat in the same area. I just follow the rules and drift when they get close. On the Lopez weekend they came so close that I could not see them because the bow was in the way.

A word on motor sports. Motorboats are just as "good" as kayaks, 4-wheelers are just as "good" as bikes or horses, or walking. I have watched for years as one group tryed to deny another group their freedom because one way was bad or not as "good" as their way. As long as you obey the rules, both written and unwritten, then no harm will be done. Case in point. I was launching at Everett a few weeks ago. Well a month or so. A woman was on the launch giving kayak lessons. They had their gear spread out on the launch ramp. Now there is a separate ramp at Everett just for kayaks, but this lady was using the wrong one and denying others the use of that ramp. On top of that she is teaching others bad habits. Well I went over to let her knew of the other ramp. She ignored me and kept talking as if she did not hear me. I am not hard to hear as some of you may have noticed. I got closer and let hear and her students know that they were on the wrong ramp and why there are two ramps. I was nice and polite and was just trying to be helpful. She said thank you, because she could not ignore me at this point, and went right back to talking about paddle stroke in the middle of the launch ramp. As I got father away I heard her say" ignore him, he’s just a dam fisherman" well *&^% her. Do I hold it against kayaker’s? No I judge people by their actions, not there choose of recreation. She was braking the rules of the ramp ,both written and not. the sign at the top of the ramp points to the "kayak" ramp. he unwritten rule at any ramp in not to tie it up loading gear or working on your boat or giving lessons. (ok I throw in the last one) Will I go around and bad mouth kayakers from hear on out? No. But this woman is "teaching " new kayakers to be bad kayakers. Some one in her "sport" should correct her.

[Sea Wolf]

Tom-



Joe

[CheckRaise]

Yeah, I too have gotten dirty looks and nasty remarks from land-based, granola crunching whale observers. It's like, what exactly did I do wrong? I stopped ten football fields away from the whale and drifted, and for that matter, they came to me, so how much am I bothering them, really? I have a marine naturalist on board, for cryin' out loud. Honestly, Tom, I think they're just jealous. They'd be out there if they could be.

I bought a boat to see whales, too, and like you, I found the sightings distribution list. And that's precisely my point: if people care about the whales, they probably find it like you and I did, and these sorts of people will follow the rules like we do. The flip side of this argument is that by posting the information here, we cast a far wider net (so to speak) and encourage powerboaters who are just casually looking for a place to boat to fire up their engines and heads for the whales. Will some of them obey the rules? I'm sure. Most, even. But you can also bet that a few morons will run right over the top of the whales. I see it all the time, and I'd hate to see more of it. Where we disagree, then, is that I don't think the sharing of information to boaters who will behave themselves merits sharing it with boaters who won't. That's why I haven't shared this info, myself; I'd rather err on the side of the whales' welfare.

[starcrafttom]

Check, I saw no less then 3 boats run over the top of the whales that day. They did not even know that they had done something wrong because they did not see the whales and they did not "see" the situation for what it was. Had they gone to the site I listed and got interested, as I did, and read the whole site including the 'rules" (they are not laws) then they may have Seen the situation for what it really was and done the right thing. I understand your fears but knowledge is power and I choose to info people more then ignore them. Even when they don’t like it.

Short story-- I was camping with my grand father in the Little grass valley area of California. Grandpa was a old hunting and fishing outdoor kind of guy. The only tree he hugged was to keep from falling down drunk. Well one day in the late 70's a guy in an Rv pulls in to the next campsite and starts his generator before he killed the engine. Great start here, Well after 6 hours of this the guy decides to get some firewood. He brings out a "electric" chain saw and starts to cut up a old bench/picnic table. Well the people in the next camp made comments, but did nothing. Others just shook their heads. Grandpa just unplugged the cord from the generator and rolled the cord up until he was face to face with the owner. he then took it from him and placed it in our truck before sitting down to his martini. What was the lesson I learned? You can complain or you can educate. I chose to educate wither they want to be or not.

[CheckRaise]

In the spirit of "I chose to educate wither they want to be or not," I shall try just one more time.

I'm not convinced that a significant percentage of the boaters who would have otherwise accidentally run over the top of whales 1) frequent this site, 2) will see this thread, 3) will open it, 4) will think "Gee, I'm going boating this weekend, so let me see where the whales are so I can avoid them," 5) will click the link, and that 6) these folks will outnumber any irresponsible boaters you just gave a map to the whales. You obviously disagree. And there we have it. For my part, I've taken down my whale photos, lest they serve to entice said irresponsible boaters.

[CAVU]

Everyone has a different opinion about whales. Food for thought: two years ago my wife and I took a trip to Baja in Feb. We went on a whale watching trip out of Guerro Negro. The pangas take you out in the middle of the bay, stop the boat with the engine idling and the whales come right up to the boat close enough to reach out and touch them. They are gray whales. Many times they would nose up to the running engine as if fascinated by the sound. If engine noise were deafening to whales we must have a lot of hard-of-hearing orcas around the San Juans? I would be the last to criticize a boater who "ran over the top of whales." Is it possible or even likely they had no idea the whales were there? I pretty much agree with Tom on this. Those boaters who have an interest in whales will take the time to get educated and follow their interests. Those who could care less will just boat like they always have and the whales will take care of themselves.

[starcrafttom]

Check,
I did not know anything about whales a year ago. I'm from the sierras. I did not know about the rules (not laws) and what to do if I saw a whale. in all the movies you just motor up and hand feed the dam thing, right. Well I went looking for info. There is a lot of good info and a lot of bad info. It would have HELPED if some one had posted a sight with good info and the rules. I found it but it was not easy. People think that they can protect the whales by hiding them from the rest of the public by denying them information. How silly is that. Last year I posted a fishing spot in Marysville for sturgeon. Two people emailed me telling me not to do that on the net or else. Or else what varied. They said it was a secret. Last time I looked it was a public river and the fish are legal to take under the law. I think the difference between me and you and them is that I do not regard my fellow Americans as stupid or evil. I do not believe that most people are going to do the wrong thing if I tell them where the whales or sturgeon are. And if they do I will tell them the right thing to do. It’s not enough to do the right thing. But you have to require others to do the right thing. That’s why we have laws. I learned to fish new areas (I have lived in 5 or so states) by asking questions and reading all the information I can get. I like to help others do the same. I do not buy the "local only" mentality of some boaters and fisherman. I am local to the U.S.A. I have never had a secret spot or rig. I will tell everyone where and when and on what I caught my fish. Does it mean they will be able to do the same? No.

Please do not stop posting the pics of whales. You got some really good shots and should be proud. I really loved looking at them and emailed them to several of my family members that do not live near the ocean. Sent a shot to my mom near Vegas. She will not talk to me for a few days at least. I'm not even allowed to call her from the san juans at all. Please keep posting go nature shots. And you are right about the education thing .. and I am still trying to get you straight.

[rogerbum]

Just a "granola eater" attempting to clarify one issue - what is law and what is a rule

Taken from the national marine manufacturer's association web site (a pro-power boating group) -
_________
Current Law - The Marine Mammal Protection Act (MMPA) prohibits the “taking” of marine mammals except under a very narrow set of exemptions. Taking includes the harassment of marine mammals, which the MMPA defines in two categories. Level A harassment is the “potential to injure” a marine mammal; Level B harassment is “the potential to disturb” a marine mammal by causing “disruption of behavioral patterns.” Since 1997, NMFS has used generic sound exposure thresholds to determine if an “acoustic take” has occurred under MMPA. This new rulemaking effort is an attempt by the agency to develop “new science-based thresholds to improve and replace the current generic exposure level thresholds.”
The definitions of harassment in the MMPA have resulted in much confusion for both regulatory agencies and the regulated community. The lack of clarity surrounding the statutory definitions of harassment means that potentially any activity by recreational boaters could be construed as harassment. Within the context of recreational boating and boat engine noise, this lack of clarity becomes more acute. Preparing more specific guidelines which operate under the current definitions does not correct the fundamental lack of clarity in the MMPA. In 2000, the National Research Council determined that the intent of the MMPA was never to regulate activities that result in minor behavioral changes, but rather activities which cause “meaningful disruptions to biologically significant activities,” and made recommendations to clarify the MMPA to that end. The U.S. Commission on Ocean Policy has endorsed this recommendation...
_______

The article goes on to discuss the difficulty in determining threshhold for noise etc. that "will cause meaningful disruptions to biological activity".

Not saying what is right or wrong or even what I believe - just pointing out that the LAW not RULE specifically prohibits harassment of marine mammals and that harassment is not clearly enough defined at present to determine what is and is not breaking federal law. Certainly, the extremes are easy to define - trying to herd whales into a group with your C-Dory would be considered harassment by any reasonable person and having a whale visit you when you are at anchor would not be. Putting oneself in a position where your drift might carry you over the top of a whale or near a group of whales seems squarely in the grey area to me.... Ditto for motoring into the general vicinity of a group of whales and then cutting the engine. Given the lack of clarity in the definition of harassment, it might be wise to err on the side of caution and intentionally keep a good distance from the whales. You never know if the enforment officer and judge that you run into will be a left-wing, liberal granola eater (like me) or a red-neck who'd be happy to share a piece of whale meat with you... ("Tastes like chicken"....By the way, why is it most every non-categorized meat tastes like chicken? ) or someone in between.

Whatever you decide to do, recognize that there is a federal law the prohibits harassment and that someone (hopefully a reasonable person) will define harassment when they write you a ticket or see you in court.

That said, I too love seeing whales when I'm on my boat and have never really seen one close up.

Roger on the SeaDNA

[Sawdust]

Guess they like white hair! I've had Orcas come visit on my last three shrimping trips. Pulling a shrimp pot, look up, and voila! Maybe ten or fifteen feet away. They don't hang around, just visit and slowly go away. I avoid them when possible, but I shrimp on the South Lopez coast and they hang out there in large numbers. Years ago had one make a pass at a salmon I was pulling in and he snagged the downrigger wire! Now THAT was exciting.

Even had a gray whale harass me last year. Pulling a crab pot in a quiet area - no other boats around - big whiiiisshhh behind me. Goose bumps! Blood pressure off scale. That rascal was so lound I still have nightmares. Less than a boat length from me and much longer than my 22 CD.

Dusty

[starcrafttom]

yeah the law leaves a little or a lot to be desired here. We were watched by the enforcement boat the last time out. there were 10 boats or so and the b.c. zodiacs were the most intrusive of the bunch, well except for the speeding boats but they did not know what was going on, the patrol boat did not even talk to them. in the last two years I have had the whales go under one boat or another several times. It seems to me that if you just drift with engines off they come over and check you out. I saw a whale ,while on a tour boat, go from boat to boat. the boats were not in a straight line and were spaced out so he or she had to work at it to get to every boat. It was really great to watch. granola is bad for you. it makes every one who eats it uptight.