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Les Lampman
Dealer
Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 779
City/Region: Whidbey Island
State or Province: WA
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 Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:23 pm Post subject: More good news for us. |
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Dave called me yesterday and said that he had just spoken to Townsend Bay Marine and gotten the weight for the hull shell (all the fiberglass parts). Oh, yeah, and was I sitting down?
Turns out it was good news, very good news. Our new boucing baby boat is...
1300 pounds!
That's about 400 pounds lighter than the first hull and the new hull is even stronger!
We're happy! 
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Les
www.marinautboats.com |
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Wandering Sagebrush
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 2770
City/Region: Northeast Oregon
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Constant Craving
Photos: Constant Craving
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, that is quite a bit of dieting! New technique from the time before? Vacuum bagging?
Nice work!
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"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." - Abraham Lincoln |
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Les Lampman
Dealer
Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 779
City/Region: Whidbey Island
State or Province: WA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, it's a different building method but not vacuum bagging. The first boat was built using a chopper gun. The hull we're doing now is hand laid and we're using coring extensively for strength and weight reduction.
I think it's a combination of things that accounts for the lower weight rather than any one thing. More than anything it's attention to detail and consistency of layup.
Les |
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chimoii
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 271
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2017
C-Dory Model: R-25 Tug
Vessel Name: Chimo
Photos: Chimo
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:06 am Post subject: |
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That's a remarkably low weight Les. How do you think it will ride? We are not talking deep-V here when lower weight is often really good. I love the extra 1000 lbs that the 23 Venture brings to the table when it gets choppy. I realize that I am paying for it in gas but it really smooths things out. "happy wife - happy life".
Everyone to his own I guess.
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Chimo: a word of greeting, farewell, and toast before drinking once widely spoken in the Inuktitut language in northern Canada. |
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starcrafttom
Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 7882
City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:46 am Post subject: |
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so thats 400lbs of gear susan can cram on to a boat. Nice job. 400 lbs out of a 22ft boat is a lot. what was it before and what % of weight was reduced?
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Thomas J Elliott
http://tomsfishinggear.blogspot.com/ |
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Captains Cat
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 7313
City/Region: Cod Creek>Potomac River>Chesapeake Bay
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Captain's Choice II
Photos: Captain's Cat
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:40 am Post subject: |
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C'mon Marine Buddy. 1700 Pounds before, 1300 now, 400 lighter (remember?)..
400# is about 1/4 of 1700# (very roughly) and 1/4 is.......
25%!
Way to go guys, hope to see one at SBS 12!!
Charlie
_________________
CHARLIE and PENNY CBRAT #100
Captain's Cat II 2005 22 Cruiser
Thataway (2006 TC255 - Sold Aug 2013)
Captain's Cat (2006 TC255 - Sold January 2012)
Captain's Kitten (1995 CD 16 Angler- Sold June 2010)
Captain's Choice (1994 CD 22 Cruiser- Sold Jun 2007)
Potomac River/Chesapeake Bay
K4KBA |
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C-Nile
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 638
City/Region: Connecticut
State or Province: CT
C-Dory Year: 2012
Vessel Name: Betty Ann
Photos: C-Nile
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:21 am Post subject: |
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As the soon-to-become owner of MBC Hull #1, I am ecstatic that Les cut the Marinaut hull weight down by 400 pounds while enhancing its strength. Firstly, the Marinaut has a very sharp bow, and it is very easy to get the bow down and keep it down should a chop be encountered. When my wife and I test drove Dave's boat, it really handled very well; it was rock-solid in the water. Secondly, we ordered the boat with a 500 lbs. Honda BF115, a 125 lbs. kicker and related gear, extra battery, and a wide variety of equipment that I previously had estimated would bring the overall weight with two occupants, supplies, fuel and water to 4,500 lbs. With the lighter (but stronger) hull, it looks like we may be able to reduce the overall weight by approximately 10 percent, which will make a big improvement on fuel efficiency. Fuel efficiency is important to us because it increases the boat's range, reduces fuel costs and very importantly: it enhances the resale value of the boat. We can't lose sight that gasoline in 10 years could easily double in price, and more fuel-efficient boats will be highly desired.
Way to go Les!
Rich
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Marinaut 215 - "Betty Ann" Sept-2011
CD 16 Cruiser "C-Nile" Sold 06/2011 |
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jennykatz
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 1678
City/Region: naples
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Little Treasurer
Photos: Jennykatz
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:02 am Post subject: weight |
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I think the marinut 215 would be a good candidate for the 70 hp yamaha . and a single axcel alum trailer under 2500lb complete. That would put this combo into many more boaters hands since you could pull this with almost any car ,truck or SUV . No need to buy that bigger truck SUV. That would be a good package for any of our selling dealers where can you get a fishing cruiser boat less then 2500lb and at 21ft
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retired 8/08 from UAL, still working pt tm
Duck c-22 cruiser sold 6/23/08
06 Venture Cruiser with merc115CT
00 cd16 cruiser honda 40 sold 3/12 |
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Les Lampman
Dealer
Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 779
City/Region: Whidbey Island
State or Province: WA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: weight |
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| jennykatz wrote: | | I think the marinut 215 would be a good candidate for the 70 hp yamaha . and a single axcel alum trailer under 2500lb complete. That would put this combo into many more boaters hands since you could pull this with almost any car ,truck or SUV . No need to buy that bigger truck SUV. That would be a good package for any of our selling dealers where can you get a fishing cruiser boat less then 2500lb and at 21ft |
The weight I quoted is for the fiberglass shell only, not even the empty weight of the boat as it would typically leave a factory. Adding up the weights of the stuff we'll add during the build (windows, interior, cushions, fuel tanks, water tank, etc) it looks like we'll come in at 1800 to 1900 pounds.
After that you add the weight of the engine, batteries, rigging items, electronics, accessories, anchor/rode, fuel, water, gear, and such. That will come to around 1,000 pounds with a light engine like the F70.
Then you have the weight of the trailer (about 700 to 800 pounds).
So towing weight would likely be around 3700 pounds even in a very light configuration. I quote 4000 to 4500 pounds as a typical weight and as much as 5000 pounds with a heavily loaded boat (ready for a long cruise).
Typically the M215 can be pulled with a decent sized V-6 as they're usually rated around 5,500 pounds (and sometimes more). It's really to big too be hauling around with a 4-banger.
Les |
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jennykatz
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 1678
City/Region: naples
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Little Treasurer
Photos: Jennykatz
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:34 am Post subject: weights |
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MY mistake wishful thinking so 1400lb plus 1000lb =2400lb plus an alum trailer 500-600lb little over 3000lb still doable with smaller car ,truck ,SUV .
Les thats why I suggested a single axcel alum trailer(500-600lb) and the new 70 yamaha( 250lb) to keep the weight down |
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Les Lampman
Dealer
Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 779
City/Region: Whidbey Island
State or Province: WA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:32 am Post subject: Re: weights |
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| jennykatz wrote: | MY mistake wishful thinking so 1400lb plus 1000lb =2400lb plus an alum trailer 500-600lb little over 3000lb still doable with smaller car ,truck ,SUV .
Les thats why I suggested a single axcel alum trailer(500-600lb) and the new 70 yamaha( 250lb) to keep the weight down |
You have to start at 1800 to 1900 pounds, not 1400. The shell alone weighs 1300, by the time we add the interior, tanks, windows, and such the factory empty weight will be in that 1800 to 1900 pound range.
Then you add the 1,000 pounds for engine, fuel, gear, and whatnot and that is using the F70. So then you're up to about 2800 at the lightest.
If you then add a 600 pound trailer you're towing about 3400 pounds (and I think that's awfully light for most folks...just saying).
I'd hate to count on towing that setup with a vehicle rated for 3500 pounds and the next step up in tow ratings seems to be about 5,000 to 5,500 pounds which is plenty.
I'm pretty much a "right tool for the right job" kinda guy. I don't think trying to tow a 21.5' boat that's almost 8' wide and 8.5' tall behind a small 4-cylinder vehicle is using the right tool. That's just my opinion but I certainly wouldn't encourage it for my customers. I like the dog wagging the tail. 
Les |
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jennykatz
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 1678
City/Region: naples
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Little Treasurer
Photos: Jennykatz
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:55 pm Post subject: weights |
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Les I guess again wishful thinking We used to tow our cd-22 cruiser about 3700lb it had a 90 suzuki with a 900lb galv trailer and usually no fuel or water until we reached our destination (fl keys etc)
We towed with a Mazda MPV rated at 4500lb then traded up to a Honda Pilot again 4500lb rating no problems but they still got 14-17 mpg . Just wishful thinking to use a little bit better tow car ,truck (better mpg )with a lighter boat but it seems it will be the same as a cd -22 |
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Les Lampman
Dealer
Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 779
City/Region: Whidbey Island
State or Province: WA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: weights |
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| jennykatz wrote: | Les I guess again wishful thinking We used to tow our cd-22 cruiser about 3700lb it had a 90 suzuki with a 900lb galv trailer and usually no fuel or water until we reached our destination (fl keys etc)
We towed with a Mazda MPV rated at 4500lb then traded up to a Honda Pilot again 4500lb rating no problems but they still got 14-17 mpg . Just wishful thinking to use a little bit better tow car ,truck (better mpg )with a lighter boat but it seems it will be the same as a cd -22 |
Yes sir, I hear you. But you're right...the M215 is going to come out just about the weight of the earlier CD22s (they were listed at about 1900 pounds and we'll be close); the later ones were heavier. Fuel and water play a big part, about 500 pounds worth in the Marinaut. But most folks keep their tanks (fuel anyway) full and stabilized these days so typically that weight will have to be towed most of the time unless you really plan ahead. Unless someone really adds some significant weight the M215 will do alright behind an MPV or Pilot.
It gets progressively harder to get the weight down after the first big effort in the hull; there just aren't many big heavy items to change or eliminate. I wanted to consider a composite interior (not necessarily molded fiberglass) but the total weight of all the DecraGuard material comes to less than 300 pounds. Even if I could halve that it doesn't amount to a "big deal" kind of thing. I can't change the weight of the windows, I can't change the weight of the cushions much, I can't change the weight of the two fuel tanks, so really there just are any good places to save a lot more weight.
For a really light boat we could leave the fuel tanks out and use portable tank and do a very simple interior (a couple of pedestal seats?) but that would be pretty Spartan for most folks.
Les |
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Les Lampman
Dealer
Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 779
City/Region: Whidbey Island
State or Province: WA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:21 pm Post subject: A slight revision to the weight... |
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The hull shell was ready for me to pick up this morning. They loaded all the parts on board (the helm/dash, the aft bulkhead, and the bulkhead "wings") and got an official weight for me.
It wasn't 1300 pounds; it was 1220 pounds! Looks like we should be very close to 1800 pounds (or under) empty weight when the boat is finished (at the factory level).
They also gave me a sample of the aft bulkhead and the cabin side layups where they had cut them out for the windows. Well color me impressed, especially for the cabin side/front wall layup (and that's the same as the hull). Those are the areas we added 6mm Soric and oh my goodness is that sample strong. I don't know what it would take to break the 2' x 3' sample they gave me but it wouldn't be anything "normal".
Les |
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