Using the compass or not?

[Pat Anderson]

I'm with Roger. Dead reckoning with compass and paper charts is truly obsolete and of mainly historical interest any more - a good GPS chartplotter with good electronic charts and a backup battery powered handheld are what you need.

At sailboat speeds, you might have a chance of knowing where you are with dead reckoning using speed, time and distance and plotting every course change with a rule on the chart. But (A) at C-Dory speeds, this is pretty much impossible (especially at your speed, Tom - I have seen you charging by many times ), (B) if the chain of plots gets broken, even once, and you can't re-establish current position from two known points on land, you are SOL, and (C) I don't care how good you are with dead reckoning, you are just making a wild ass guess and hoping for the best as to exactly where that rock on the chart really is, dead reckoning just is not accurate enough even when you are really good at it.

Patty and I took the Power Squadron course, which had a good introduction to compasses, paper charts, dividers, rules and dead reckoning. We could see how, if you were going from some departure point to some destination, real slow, you might be able to do this, especially in the days before GPS, when you really had to.

We like the paper charts (mainly chartbooks, not individual paper charts) for trip planning, and have them on board and frequently open while cruising, mainly for the "big picture" - the GPS tells us where we are and where the rocks and shoals are, the paper charts help us decide which way to go.

[colobear]

I agree that this is a discussion that cannot be "won". As is often the case it can truly be settled only with mutual respect and an agreement to peacefully disagree.

[Hunkydory]

I'll freely admit not being good enough at navigating with compass and paper charts to feel safely capable of going much of the near 6000 miles we have explored in Southeast Alaska. Got into this boating thing to late in life to add the must know really well "navigating with compass and paper charts" to all the other things that one should know. Oh, I've had experience years ago getting about in the dark with a map and compass and in ground school with airplanes, but Without the GPS and electronic charts I would never have attempted the cruises we have successively made. I do believe in redundancy. Especially with the Wallas. Have been convinced if the primary heat and cooking source is the Wallas stove then the Buddy Heater and Coleman stove is high on the list of important back ups . After it to name a few, separate motors, fuel tanks and batteries, three anchors with plenty of extra rode and connectors, spare props and or in our case spare blades for the props and on top of the list, the three extra gps's aboard. In fact if having to choose between one spare gps and the radar there wouldn't be a radar on board. Not all that much boat traffic in our preferred cruising areas but lots of rocks and shoals.

Like Pat and many others we prefer charts in the form of cruise books and the large plastic overlayed variety to see the big picture on a cruise and at home for planning. To me there is way to many other more important things for Jo-Lee and I to spend our time on in preparation for the next big cruise then teaching her or refreshing myself on chart and compass navigation and I think the same could be said for those who are still in the dream and plan stage about that big adventure in the future.

Yep Roger, I agree with the compass and charts being outdated technology and though I've removed it from the dash and replaced with another gps electronic chart still carry it among the spares. As yet still can't leave it home or throw away though this spring it just might be left behind for the first time.

[JamesTXSD]

This is an interesting discussion. I am in the electronic charting camp, but we always carry paper charts of the areas we cruise in. "Big picture" viewing is easier for us on paper, close in navigating is done with the electronics and eyeballs out the windshield. On our boat, the first mate always has the paper charts on her lap or beside her when we are in new areas. I thought she might really like the ease and convenience of the iPad with electronic charts, but some habits/techniques are not easily converted.

Of course, the electronic stuff is only as accurate as the chart information. I've heard many folks say, "The GPS is WAY OFF - it shows me on land when we're on the water. I thought it would be more accurate than that." It IS accurate, but the charting data may have come from very dated sources... i.e., the lat/lon is right on, but the positioning on the "chart" isn't.

I whole-heartedly agree that for close-in work, the electronics are better for positioning, BUT it's important to know the direction you are supposed to be heading. For that reason, I don't use our auto-pilot to go from waypoint to waypoint, but use it as an assist in holding course.

As a former pilot, most of my flying was IFR, even in clear weather. Trust the electronics, but have the paper charts available. Same thing with long distance driving: would you go from coast to coast without a map, using only the GPS? I like to have that overview to check that where the GPS is taking me is the best routing for MY needs.

The first mate and I can both plot, but even if set and drift don't vary, navigation is more accurate with electronics. You can be in either camp, but it doesn't hurt to be in BOTH.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

[El and Bill]

An addendum to our 2004 post about carrying a hand-held compass and paper charts.

We still carry the hand-held compass, and a hand held GPS. But now we also carry Navionics charts for the area where we are cruising -- in our iPhone. The iPhone has a built-in GPS that locates us on the charts in the iPhone.

We cruised with the iPhone charts and GPS this summer along the north shore of Lake Superior and in Voyageurs National Park (as tough an area to navigate as we have yet cruised) - and it worked fine. So another option is now available, with an independent electrical system (if the primary chartplotter fails).

[starcrafttom]

Another idea that rolls around in my mind is this, how far do you plan on going if you have a systems failure? I mean really? if I lose the gps and the radar and the depth finder all at once, how far would i cruise with out them? Not far. I only need to get to a safe place to tie up or anchor so i can go thru the systems and get them back online. Its not like I would continue to cruise Alaska with out the electronics working. If I cant get it working in a few hours then its a problem that has to be sent to the factory or just replaced and lets face it there is nowhere in the U.S. these days that is not a days travel by air or car from a good sizes town and FedEx. the days of the frontier are gone.

Which leads me to another subject. Reading the water. I fell that I'm very good at reading the water. the water will tell you a lot about what lays below just by looking at it. the shade of color, the texture of the surface, the weed lines and rips. All these things will give you a idea of what the water around you hides in its depths. Now I have boated with out a single piece of electronic for years. mostly on lakes, rivers and some salt but it all applies. I think that learning to run and row rivers has helped me avoid danger in the salt more then anything else. tides and currents show you the same things that a current in a river does.

my first electronics gear was a depth sounder and I can find my way any where with just a sounder and a map. Now having a chart plotter makes it all easier and safer for the beginner but I think doing with out teaches you more in the long run and makes you a better boater.

[Captains Cat]

[thataway]

Everyone to his own opinion. I want to get home safely. I guess that some parts of the world don't have lightning--but where I boat, we do have it--and I have seen all of the electronics knocked out (including hand held GPS--unless it was in a faraday cage --which I keep mine in) in an instant.

On the other hand, I have traveled many thousands of miles with DR both in sail and power. (and at C Dory speeds) I used to run to Catalina--and other channel Islands with only a compass and RDF--If you were to find some of the old predicted log racers, you would find that they might be within 30 or so feet of accuracy that GPS gives. Consider the book "We the navigators" by David Lewis. There awareness is key. I also learned this in going to the channel Islands 50 or more years ago. The sea state, wave defraction, seaweed pattern etc.

Granted I will not give up my GPS, Plotters, Radar, I pad etc. But I also want that compass,& chart--with a few ticks of where I was a few minutes ago just in case. They may be outdated, until you loose the other modes. I don't know what the chances of loosing GPS is, but I have lost it in the proximity of naval ships. There have been reports of jamming GPS in small areas. There are reports of some military jamming systems being effective over large areas. Again--not a lot of risks.

But why not learn the skills and have a compass and charts aboard? It might save your bacon!

[Tortuga]

[starcrafttom]

[Captains Cat]

[Hunkydory]

Would be interesting to see the results of a poll among the c-brats on their present day value of knowing well the use of paper charts and magnetic compass to navigate. Believe thous with a sail boating background and especially the ones raised in that environment would hold their value much higher than us who have come to boating later in life or have primarily power boated using the gps and electronic charts with varying degrees of knowledge from the past of maps, paper charts and the magnetic compass. Could it be possible some of the arguments for there continued high importance as a back up is more about the lifetime of knowledge gained in their use not now wanting to be determined useless than the actual odds of putting this knowledge to use in the C-Dory boating world of today with a good gps chart plotter and at least two back ups aboard with one being handheld and battery operated.

I prefer to have two gps chart plotters turned on at the same time one showing the big view and the other the close up. Also the smaller one a Garmin 276C has its power connected to the boats battery and also has its own battery backup if power is lost. Have two more handhelds and the notebook computer with Nobeltec if the first two should fail. And yes I see how this could be considered overkill, but after losing computer and handhelds in the past and having problems in 2007 with the computer Nobeltec software and the Garmin 276C freezing up believe the number of gps backups should only be limited by lack of funds. Maybe this is why I too have not yet got rid of the Magnetic Compass. Its not that I don't see the value in paper charts and the magnetic compass if the gps and its back ups should fail its more the odds of it happening being so low and other concerns in the areas we cruise so much higher that it ranks very low on my "should do something about this list". Feel time can be much better spent further educating myself about the future places I plan on exploring and being more knowledgeable about all the electronic and other systems aboard the boat and sharing this with Jo-Lee.

Jay

[cbgale]

I guess it somewhat depends how you use your boat, on which way you come down on this discussion. I cross Lake Superior several times a year, lose sight of land, am more than 25 miles from any landfall, and have GPS, backup GPS, and backup to my backup GPS. Radar and depth sounder round out the electronic bells and whistles. I cross busy upbound and downbound shipping lanes in the process, and fog is often encountered. But, I know how fast my CD runs at 500 rpm intervals, and plot my location at 30 minute intervals, just in case the power goes out, lightening strikes, and a radiation storm hits. My compass and Casio have never failed. I just feel better knowing that I might be able to minimize the time I spend in 39 degree water, should something happen and I end up abandoning ship. It's not rocket-science, and I feel better having analog soutions to my digital location. I want to die warm and dry, and will use everything in my nav bag to do so. It is also a source of real gratification to know that I can get where I want to go using only the non-power tools in front of me. Those electrons flying around in my GPs are just too elusive.

[Will-C]

Hi,
For me paper charts for a new cruising area allow you to see a bigger picture of the overall picture. Paper charts have allowed me to call fellow cruisers for recommended routes while talking via cell phone with both of us looking at paper charts. I to involve my wife with her keeping an eye on a paper chart while I set waypoints and use the GPS's to get to destinations. I don't use them much but I do carry a hand held bearing compass and parallel rulers and the like. Nice to have a non electronic backup at least for me. Guys that sailed for years always told me always carry a paper chart for the areas you are in. I heed their advice since I have respect for their time on the water. Since everything else they suggested seemed to have been good common sense ideas I figure there must be something to it. I have two mounted GPS units. I guess a handheld is also in order. Everyone has there own way of doing things. For us two heads are better than one and it keeps my wife's head in the game.
D.D.

[starcrafttom]