90 E-TEC Problems

[mcc272]

I finished my rebuild and launched in mid June. Since then, the boat has been back in the shop for 3 weeks and I just dropped it off again. No telling how long it will be there this time. It has a 90 E-TEC on it with I-Command gauges. There is a 3A fuse on the power feed to the network which blows again and again and has been doing this since the day we launched. I can't find a pattern. High speed, low speed, starting up, after running an hour, shifting, steady state ops, you name it. The shop could not duplicate but that was with the boat on the trailer. They bought a fancy new network tester and the network tests out OK and told me to use the boat and start taking things off. First off was the Raymarine A70D. Then the GPS and fuel efficiency computer which are E-TEC accessories. Now, I am down to only engine data, 2 I-Command gauges and power to the network and the network is configued exactly as shown in the installation manual. Still I am blowing fuses. So, any bright ideas of what the problem might be or how to find it? I am now getting desparate and the dealer, a large E-TEC operation, also seems to be out of ideas.

[cemiii]

No specific help here. I was thinking about I controls for mine.

Here is a link to an ETEC owners forum that might help.

http://www.etecownersgroup.com/?forum=115573

Chris

[Matt Gurnsey]

Unhook one of the gauges at a time and see what happens. The network powers the gauges, and any accesories. SInce you're down to just the gauges, I suspect the problem is there. Check the wiring at the gauges, be sure any unconnected wires are not making contact.

[mcc272]

Matt --

Thanks for the advice. Part of the problem is that I can't find a pattern to what is going on and the dealer cannot make it happen with the boat on the trailer. I did run the boat for more than an hour with the network limited to just power and the gauges with no data input from the engine (that T removed) and did not blow the fuse. I put the engine data back in and have blown the fuse twice more. The dealer is going to have further discussions with the factory. Previously, they had told him that he needed an advanced network diagnosis tester of some form. He got it and the network tested out fine.

Do you think that there is any possibility the problem is at the engine end and there is some sort of a voltage spike, perhaps an intermittant alternator problem or something coming from the EMM? An alternator issue seems unlikely but 3A is one of the smallest, if not the smallest fuses on the boat and nothing else seems to be affected. Nevertheless, an alternator problem would seem a relatively remote possibility.

Thanks for any guidance. These intermittant, no observable pattern electrical issues are a huge pain and, as you well know, extremely difficult to find.

Jim

[tpbrady]

This is a shot in the dark, but the ETEC runs a de facto NMEA 2000 network. Is it possible the network is being powered from two sources, the engine and the helm? I think NMEA 2000 is looking for only a single network power source.

[Matt Gurnsey]

NMEA2000 can have multiple power inputs- in fact, long networks require it to maintain voltage. There should be no voltage for the network coming from the engine, as I understand it.

If the network without the engine runs fine, but adding the engine causes the problem, I would lean toward something odd at the engine. Maybe as simple as a defective "T"?

[Will-C]

mc,
Did wire all these items in yourself? I'm wondering about the amperage draw on the 3 amp fuse as you mention as this occurs on a random basis? Bad connections, excessive amperage draw, exposed hot wires touching ground shielding etc. can be fuse blowers. In our business we remove all accessories from the basic device making sure thats ok stand alone and then add them back on one at a time until the problem reoccurrs. Is that the same Raymmarine stuff you trying to unload?
D.D.

[tpbrady]

Matt,

I can see the need for mulitple power sources in a NMEA network, but shouldn't each powered segment be isolated from the others for power purposes. Lowrance in their documentation says to use only a single power source for a NMEA 2000 network. http://www.lowrance.com/upload/Lowrance/Documents/Manuals/NMEA2000NetworksGeneralInfo_0154-173_112006.pdf

Tom

[Matt Gurnsey]

Keep in mind that the components used by Lowrance and Garmin are not "true" NMEA2000. NMEA2000 has two different cable specs, and can be quite large netwoks by design.

The NMEA2000 products offered by Lowrance and Garmin do use a connector compatible with the micro NMEA2000 connector, and use the NMEA2000 language, but the cables are not true NMEA2000.

Because of this, the size of the networks that Lowrance and Garmin can build are more limited, and do not acheive the size where an additional power source is needed.

[mcc272]

Thanks one and all for the advice and siuggestions.

D.D. -- I did not do the initial install myself. Rather it was done by a large E-Tec dealership when the boat was repowered with the 90 E-Tec. They have gone over it for 3 weeks and cannot make it blow the fuse on the trailer and have put an advanced diagnostic tester on the network and can't find the issue. This week they have the boat back and are talking with the factory as they are pretty stumped.

D.D. -- The Raymarine C90W is gone, replaced by a Furuno 1834 which I love and which is not on the network. Originally, there was a Raymarine A70D on the network but I have removed the T that brought it onto the network.

Matt -- I lean toward an engine issue but a defective T makes sense. I was thinking that the T might flex if the boat slaps causing a short that would not be apparent on the trailer. However, I think that all the Ts are tight and proper. Also, I have blown the fuse on the network in its most simplified form when the boat is operating at 5MPH with no wakes or anything.

Current network configuration:
Terminator
T with engine data
Extension cable
T with power
T with gauge
T with gauge
Terminator

I have removed the T's with the Raymarine A70D, the memory module and the GPS so the network is extremely simple and basic and complies with the required linear architecture.

I will talk with the dealer tomorrow and report anything that I learn but so far, the mystery continues. Thanks to all.

Jim

[mcc272]

Well, here is an update. The Evinrude factory says that since the power to the network comes off the key switch and is on when the key is activated, it is possible that there is a voltage spike coming from the controls. They say those are almost impossible to find which makes me think one of two things -- they have seen this problem before or it is a stock answer when they cannot figure out a voltage spike problem. At any rate, their advise is to remove the power from the ignition key and add it to a separate breaker on the panel. That way, I will throw the rocker switch on the panel and light up the gauges. Then I will turn the key, start the engine and it will send the data. It is worth a try and the network has now had its power input rewired. Tomorrow I go and fetch the boat. I will bring it home, reload everything and then go launch and see if I blow the fuses. Everyone cross your fingers! I will report.

Jim

[Matt Gurnsey]

That's an interesting approach.

There is also a multi source power input (BRP # 764159) that is used on multiple engine setups. We've used this power source to also allow a power source for the network other than the engines so that guys with kickers can still power up the network for the GPS.

Keep us posted, as this is intersting. Pain in the butt for you, but maybe you can help us learn something.

As far as my bad T idea, I don't suspect the T flexes, but rather that it has an intermitent short. Also- are all the wires on te back of the gauges secured? Some of the wires are unused, but if they came in contact with each other could cause a short. Have they taken the boat out with the network tester in place?

I'm just throwing out some ideas and things to check. I suspect the shop has checked most of this, and I'm not trying to second guess them. Sometimes someone removed from the issue can come in with a fresh perspective from those that have been staring at the problem for awhile.

[mcc272]

Matt --

So far so good. Swinging on the hook in Eatons Neck Basin, a beautiful sand hole on the noth shore of Long Island. Just us and a 40 foot sailboat as all the day boats have gone home. So far so good on the fuse side. I did not blow any today so I am cautiously optimistic that this may be the fix. I did all sorts of things with the boat today and it normally would have blown the fuse several times by now.

All the wiring is nice and tight and all neatly wire tied so I don't think I have a problem in that regard.

They did not launch the boat and run it with the tester in the network. I wish they had but they don't seem to launch anything if it comes in on a trailer as mine did.

We also repropped the boat with a 13" pitch 3 blade and I am now within spec for RPM so the pieces are slowly coming together. We will play with the boat tomorrow as well and I may put the GPS and the memory module back in the network.

Thanks for your comments. Yes, hopefully someone will put this info to use.

Jim

[mcc272]

Well, hopefully, this is the final update. We played with the boat Saturday and a good chunk of Sunday doing normal boating things. In the past we would have blown the fuse several times but this time we returned to the dock with all 15 spare 3A fuses that I left with and the fuse in the fuse holder still intact. I feel quite confident that the power problem is solved although time will tell for sure. It is easy enough to turn the gauges on as they are on the panel at the helm and to then start the engine. Clearly there must be some sort of intermittant short in the side mounted control box which includes the ignition key, throttle/shifter and engine trim.

Thanks again for the suggestions and support through this aggrevating issue. Other than that problem, I am really pleased with the 90 E-Tec.

Jim