View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Mike...
Joined: 13 Dec 2008 Posts: 470
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Photos: Accelerando
|
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:28 pm Post subject: TomCat steering hydraulic fluid spray |
|
|
Fellow TomCatters....
Back when I bought the TomCat, I remember one of you telling me to check behind the helm for hydraulic fluid. I did, and at the time I remember thinking that the angled area below the pump felt a just little greasy in one area, and the floor of that hidden space below also felt a little greasy. But, I found no standing fluid. And until today, I haven't give this another thought.
But with some electronics going in behind the helm, I went searching and found this thread which has me wondering about the logic of mounting anything back there.
As most of you probably know, I have yet to get the boat into the water. That should change next month, if all goes according to plan. However the boat was a dealer demo, and had almost 50 hours on it when I bought it.
So here is my question. Let's say I have electronics mounted behind the helm on that vertical section. And let's say I have one of those fluid gushers like Captain Matt described in the thread linked above. Or maybe I have just a small leak. Besides the obvious mess, how bad is the fluid going to be for the electronics? Hydraulic fluid is not conductive or corrosive, is it?
By the way, I had a local Honda certified engine yard service the outboards and power bleed the steering. They did so, and said all went well.
Of course I did the research on these folks before taking the boat there. They were recommended to be my several boaters as well as three different full service yards. Apparently the collective wisdom here is that these folks are the only ones you want touching your engines and related systems like steering. They have been around for many, many years, and It took them two weeks just to get to my boat because they were so backed up. So I have good confidence that their work was done well.
Still I worry about this Sea Star steering system and my electronics below.
Any thoughts?
---
mike |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Captains Cat
Joined: 03 Nov 2003 Posts: 7313 City/Region: Cod Creek>Potomac River>Chesapeake Bay
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Captain's Choice II
Photos: Captain's Cat
|
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Although I have my autopilot pump mounted back there and a bunch of junction boxes with wiring in it, I don't worry about fluid leaks. Have never had a problem with Seastar leaks on the TC or on my 22 which also had Seastar.
That having been said, I would put big electronic things elsewhere. I used the inside of the galley cabinet, on the vertical bulkhead just forward of the water heater. Lots of room, and they don't get in the way in the sleeping area.
Unless the Admiral still wants to rip out the galley!!
Charlie _________________ CHARLIE and PENNY CBRAT #100
Captain's Cat II 2005 22 Cruiser
Thataway (2006 TC255 - Sold Aug 2013)
Captain's Cat (2006 TC255 - Sold January 2012)
Captain's Kitten (1995 CD 16 Angler- Sold June 2010)
Captain's Choice (1994 CD 22 Cruiser- Sold Jun 2007)
Potomac River/Chesapeake Bay
K4KBA |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mike...
Joined: 13 Dec 2008 Posts: 470
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Photos: Accelerando
|
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Captains Cat wrote: | That having been said, I would put big electronic things elsewhere. I used the inside of the galley cabinet, on the vertical bulkhead just forward of the water heater. Lots of room, and they don't get in the way in the sleeping area. |
Yes, in the galley cabinet makes sense, but the water heater in mine is in the cabinet below the captain's chair, and there is no room in there.
Captains Cat wrote: |
Unless the Admiral still wants to rip out the galley!!
|
I think I talked her out of that. Instead, I plan to make the dinette space more flexible by making it convertible to bench seating.
---
mike |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jennykatz
Joined: 15 Dec 2003 Posts: 1678 City/Region: naples
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Little Treasurer
Photos: Jennykatz
|
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:29 pm Post subject: baystar steering |
|
|
I have the Teleflex Baystar system for single outboards up to 150 hp on my cc-23 I found a little sheen on my fiberglass it was the hydraulic oil from the baystar . I ordered a seal kit from WM I still have to do it I will wait until I get home to Naples to play with it .
I didnt think that this would leak but I guess anything under pressure with O-rings will give out . I will add a little fluid then change next month _________________ retired 8/08 from UAL, still working pt tm
Duck c-22 cruiser sold 6/23/08
06 Venture Cruiser with merc115CT
00 cd16 cruiser honda 40 sold 3/12 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Alok
Joined: 19 Mar 2005 Posts: 291 City/Region: League City
State or Province: TX
Photos: Top Cat
|
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The Telefex steering system in the older Tomcats (such as mine- 2006) has a vented filler cap. This can leak fluid under extreme conditions without indicating a pump failure (such as experienced by Dr. Bob and Matt).
The new system, which you likely have, has a non-vented cap. Even so, when you occasionally top off the hydraulic fluid, some is liable to spill and flow back behind the helm. I have had this happen on a number of occasions. It has not hurt the instruments or the wiring. _________________ Alok
C-Dory Tomcat (Topcat) sold January 2012 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
journey on
Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 3595 City/Region: Valley Centre
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: journey on
Photos: Journey On
|
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hydraulic fluid will not short out your electronics, nor will it dissolve your components. It does make a mess.
There are several precautions you can take to prevent any spray. Get a freezer bag (the kind you can see through), cut it open and use duct tape to secure it around each joint That would ameliorate any spray and allow you to see if the joint was leaking. Though I doubt that you would get a spray, you can check every so often to see if there is any fluid on the plastic. Of course, if there is a spray, there will be a mess below the fitting, but not a spray all over. In 5 years of both manual and autopilot steering, I've never seen a leak, but then that's with a C-25, not a tomkat.
I use brake cleaner spray to clean up oil spills. On electronics I use electronic cleaner. When I unplug connectors, if they appear dirty, I spray them with electronic cleaner and then reassemble. Both are available at auto parts stores.
Boris |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Captains Cat
Joined: 03 Nov 2003 Posts: 7313 City/Region: Cod Creek>Potomac River>Chesapeake Bay
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Captain's Choice II
Photos: Captain's Cat
|
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sorry Mike, I meant the vertical thwartships bulkhead just AFT of the water heater. There's no room in my water heater cabinet under the captain's seat either. Lots in the cabinet under the sink...
Charlie |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mike...
Joined: 13 Dec 2008 Posts: 470
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Photos: Accelerando
|
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
Captains Cat wrote: | Sorry Mike, I meant the vertical thwartships bulkhead just AFT of the water heater. There's no room in my water heater cabinet under the captain's seat either. Lots in the cabinet under the sink... |
Yes there is. And I agree that's a good place to mount stuff. As long as I don't spring any leaks under there.
That reminds me, I need to check those darn leaky shower fixtures again.
---
mike |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mike...
Joined: 13 Dec 2008 Posts: 470
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Photos: Accelerando
|
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
journey on wrote: | There are several precautions you can take to prevent any spray.
|
Thank you for the suggestions Boris; I will give them a shot.
---
mike |
|
Back to top |
|
|
matt_unique
Joined: 27 Feb 2007 Posts: 1881 City/Region: Boston
State or Province: MA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Napoleon
Photos: Napoleon
|
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:01 am Post subject: Fluid |
|
|
In terms of the fountain of fluid, mine came out of the vented filler cap up top. It ran onto the floor in front of the helm and down the back around my electrical panels (not over them) and also pooled on the floor behind the helm station. For some reason, the Teleflex system cannot handle a hard reverse. Even with my 2nd helm replacement, if I go hard in reverse I will get some back pressure (can hear it through my vent cap). Fortunately I seldom have a reason to rev the RPM's in reverse so I have not thought much about it. My steering has been otherwise fine since the helm was replaced.
I've actually never had the leaking showing fixtures. I snugged the existing fixtures when I first bought the boat but have been fortunate never to have any leaks. I take a handful of showers a year on the boat. (The rest of my showers I take at home )
Mike - your vessel will be seriously 'setup' by the time you get it in the water! _________________ Captain Matt
Former owner of Napoleon (Tomcat) Hull #65 w/Counter Rotating Suzuki 150's. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Doryman
Joined: 03 Oct 2006 Posts: 3807 City/Region: Anacortes
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Lori Ann
Photos: Lori Ann
|
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: Fluid |
|
|
matt_unique wrote: | In terms of the fountain of fluid, mine came out of the vented filler cap up top. It ran onto the floor in front of the helm and down the back around my electrical panels (not over them) and also pooled on the floor behind the helm station. For some reason, the Teleflex system cannot handle a hard reverse. Even with my 2nd helm replacement, if I go hard in reverse I will get some back pressure (can hear it through my vent cap). Fortunately I seldom have a reason to rev the RPM's in reverse so I have not thought much about it. My steering has been otherwise fine since the helm was replaced. |
The last time this happened to me, I was about to run over a fisherman's gillnet (if you do that here, at the minimum, you are liable for repairs). Stopped the boat with inches to spare but got the FoF and a stalled engine.
Warren _________________ Doryman
M/V Lori Ann
TomCat 255, Hull #55, 150 Yamahas
Anacortes, WA
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
matt_unique
Joined: 27 Feb 2007 Posts: 1881 City/Region: Boston
State or Province: MA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Napoleon
Photos: Napoleon
|
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:14 pm Post subject: Net |
|
|
That would certainly be a good reason to hit it hard in reverse! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mike...
Joined: 13 Dec 2008 Posts: 470
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Photos: Accelerando
|
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Fluid |
|
|
matt_unique wrote: | For some reason, the Teleflex system cannot handle a hard reverse. Even with my 2nd helm replacement, if I go hard in reverse I will get some back pressure (can hear it through my vent cap). |
Captain Matt, I am missing something here that is probably completely obvious to everyone else. Why would hard reverse cause back pressure in the steering system?
matt_unique wrote: | Mike - your vessel will be seriously 'setup' by the time you get it in the water! |
I hope it will have a few neat things that will make it a just a bit unique. If nothing else, they will make me smile.
---
mike |
|
Back to top |
|
|
matt_unique
Joined: 27 Feb 2007 Posts: 1881 City/Region: Boston
State or Province: MA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Napoleon
Photos: Napoleon
|
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Fluid |
|
|
Mike... wrote: | matt_unique wrote: | For some reason, the Teleflex system cannot handle a hard reverse. Even with my 2nd helm replacement, if I go hard in reverse I will get some back pressure (can hear it through my vent cap). |
Captain Matt, I am missing something here that is probably completely obvious to everyone else. Why would hard reverse cause back pressure in the steering system?
matt_unique wrote: | Mike - your vessel will be seriously 'setup' by the time you get it in the water! |
I hope it will have a few neat things that will make it a just a bit unique. If nothing else, they will make me smile.
---
mike |
Hi Mike,
I don't know enough about the mechanics to explain why hard reverse triggers a pressure surge in the system. We have the liquid tie bar of course (many twin outboard vessels have a solid tie bar between them).
Maybe Dr. Bob or others can explain the surge. If it fails it will be in reverse. You should carry some Teleflex fluid aboard just in case. If you do get a fountain of fluid of sufficient volume you will loose steerage of course but adding fluid will provide a quick fix. This is more about contingency planning of course - I have over 2000 miles on Napoleon and post helm pump replacement it has not been an issue. Just something to be aware of. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Papillon
Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 949 City/Region: DeBary, Fl. *On the St. John's River*
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Papillon
Photos: Papillon
|
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: Fluid |
|
|
matt_unique wrote: | This is more about contingency planning |
My contingency planning consist of a paid up BoatUS Unlimited Towing Insurance Policy....and a good working VHF / Cell Phone.
It saves on the weight to power ratio...and on gas too. _________________ Mike Taylor
330-936-1030
1993 Angler-02' 115 Suzuki 4 Stroke |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|