Honda Tilt/Trim Motor

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From: Mike (Original Message) Sent: 9/21/2003 8:11 AM

The trim motor on my 2000 Honda 75 is acting goofy. I strongly suspect that it is varnish and corrosion on the motor brushes and commutator. Sometimes when I push the button, it does nothing. A light tap on the bracket near the motor while holding the button on the cowl will get it running everytime. If it is out of the water and the enine is up when it happens, I can get it to run with just a light flick of my finger on the trim motor case itself. It doesn't take much. It will foul up regardless of whether I try the switch on the engine or the switch on the controller inside. It also has noticeably less power at times, and will almost stall when compressing the assist cylinders or lifting the engine through the point of maximum weight on the upswing.

I do not believe it is corroded battery connections, another thing that could cause these symptoms, because it will only start working if thumped right at the trim motor itself.

Cleaning the brushes and commutator is simple, and the motor looks easy enough to remove, but the motor case is one piece and I am curious as to how intricate the brush mechanism is and if there are any tricks to getting the brush springs collapsed as the armature is put back into the case. I am purposely waiting until the end of the season in case the pieces fall all over the place when I take it apart. It could also be the connection between the wires and the internals, but the case has to be opened to determine that, as well.

The other question I have is about the coupling between the motor and pump. Is the motor shaft keyed into a hollow pump shaft, or is there a dovetail style coupling used?

Any help from anyone who has torn one of these thing apart will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike

From: Redƒox¶ Sent: 9/21/2003 9:48 AM
OK ... never fear.... Redfox is here! hehehehee OK down to business.

I do so believe the trim motors are all made by a shock company? (Showa) on my 1996 Johnson and 2000 Yamaha they are almost identical, and I saw the manufacturer name on it to. I have been through the one on my 140 Johnson before. Yes it's a 'dove tail' design for the motor shaft, and yes it was a pain to get the thing back together because of the brushes.... don't know about the newer ones though, I have not had any signs of trouble yet from the one on the 2000 Yami' and I was hoping it was a upgraded unit.. you know.. brushless. I'm interested in your report on this in near future. Hey! while were quacking about this subject. I thought this was a good time to mention another benefit of trim tabs. They save wear and tear on your engine trim unit by simply letting you set you motor trim an adjusting only the tabs (most the time anyway)
Greg

From: Mike Sent: 9/24/2003 2:48 PM
Thanks, Greg. I jerked the thing apart today, and it wasn't too complicated. The brushes are down at the opening end of the case, on the drive shaft end, and they can be reassembled outside the case on the end plate, and then slipped inside the case as a unit, armature and all.

There was a little bit of water inside the sealed(?) case. I don't know if it was condensation or leaking a bit through the wire grommet. There wasn't much water, but still more than I would expect from condensation. It has to come back apart this winter for new brushes, so I didn't put any extra sealant on the wires where they enter the case yet. I cleaned everything up, dried it out, and shined the commutator and brush faces with ScotchBrite. She runs like a champ now. One of the brushes has started to disintegrate, probably from heat and wet, so it will get a complete rebuild this winter. The brush springs are rusty and weak, too. If the cost of a new motor is reasonable, I might just replace it because the moisture has corroded it some in spots that I can't get into to clean.

The drive coupling is a tang/slot arrangement. The motor shaft is stepped down to a flat tang, which engages a slotted piece that has a smaller tang on it to engage the pump drive. Very simple, and easy to line up for assembly. The seals between the motor/end plate and the end plate/pump body are O-rings. It is a well built and easily serviceable motor. The only fiddling needed was getting the wires slid through the case far enough to get the thing apart.

Since I don't have a dealer real close, I debated leaving it until after Sequim next week. But it was getting slower and losing even more of its power, and I was having to thump it a lot harder to get it to run. So, I figured if it fell apart in my hands and I couldn't get parts in time, I would just bleed it down into position and leave it there. I'm glad I decided to do it now, even though I have to redo it later. I will get whatever parts I need and fix it up for good when the boat is parked for the winter.

From: Redƒox Sent: 9/28/2003 3:49 PM
OK, so I lied about it being a "dove tail"... hehehehe not really mike, I just did not know the correct terminology for a "tang/slot arrangement" that's what mine was to. Hey now you got me curious about what manufacturers name was on it? was it "Showa"?

Let me tell you "Old Injun Trick"..... back when I serviced mine, all they would sell me was the "brush assembly" not just the tiny little brushes. So what I did was went to a auto electric business, one that rebuilds (alternators and starting motors) and they let me go to there bins and sort through a few hundred or so, different size brushes, I finally found one that took very little filing on to retrofit it, several were almost an exact match! it's just I needed to match the wire coming out of the brush as close as possible to. Anyway, I hope I'll save ya some $$ with that story.

From: Mike Sent: 9/28/2003 7:31 PM
Thanks for the brush tip, RF. I didn't see (or even look) for a manufacturer's stamp on it.

The "dovetail" style coupling could very well have been what you found before. Usually, a DC motor direct coupled to a little hydraulic pump has a gizmo with two ears attached to each shaft, and a rubber element between them. That's kind of what I was expecting, but the steel tang arrangement works for me.

I have a feeling I will be looking to replace the complete motor. The moisture got up into the windings pretty good, and with a little heat and corrosion, the armature could go to ground any time. Not a source of great concern right now, because even if it quit all together, I could get the motor down to the running position with the bleeder and leave it there when I put the boat on the trailer. But I surely have to do something before next season.

Thanks for your help.

Mike