Cockpit Rear Hinged Seat Issues

[mcc272]

I recently bought a used CD22 that had a hinged seat across the rear of the cockpit. The seat was fastened to the front of the motor well with a full width piano hinge. To use the seat, it was pulled up level and two stainless steel legs attached to the seat were inserted into SS sockets that were recessed into the sole of the cockpit. The boat has factory floor boards which had oblong slots cut in them so that legs could reach the sole of the cockpit.

By the fiberglas molded seat, this does not look to have been a one off, custom made seat but rather an option. I do not know whether it was factory installed or whether everything was shipped loose and installed by the dealer.

The seat installation caused some severe problems:
1) The oblong holes in the factory floor boards were smeared with white polysulfide caulking which over time let go allowing water to enter the floor board cores. I have to remove substantial core which is very waterlogged.
2) The installation of the sockets in the sole created worse problems. A 1 1/2" hole was drilled in the upper laminate of the sole and most of the core was removed. The sockets were sitting on the lower fiberglas laminate of the hull. Again, they were bedded with white polysulfide caulking that had failed allowing substantial water into the core. On one side a 14" x 14" section of core had to be replaced and on the other side, the damaged area was 6" x 6". Additionally, since the sockets seemed to be resting on the bottom laminate of the boat, it seems possible that a heavy load on the seat, such as might have been occasioned by a person jumping onto the seat from a high dock, might have placed a fairly significant point load on the hull laminate.

The cautionary tale is that if, as I suspect, there are others out there with a rear hinged cockpit seat, you might want to very carefully check the installation to make sure that you do not have issues similar to what I discovered.

[Papillon]

First off, Jim
I don't believe a rear bench seat was ever an option on a CD-22 and that the installation sounds like not a dealer but the previous owner. There would have been no need to put holes in the floorboards to make the seat supports do their job. The rear deck of the cockpit is close to 2-3 inches thick and if they fastened the leg supports to the deck with some sort of screws without bedding them good you could get the soaked core you have described. I am somewhat surprised at the widths you mention. Drill , fill (epoxy) and put it back together the way it should be. It sounds like you are pretty knowledgeable, so I am sure you can keep your baby floating.

[mcc272]

Mike --

Given what I know of the previous owner, installation of the seat would be well beyond his capabilities. I also have a recollection that when we found moisture in the sole with a moisture meter during the survey, he suggested that I call the dealer implying that the dealer had installed the seat. By the construction of the seat and the fact that this was a boat with factory installed seating with storage underneath where the galley would normally be (hidden galley but without the galley), I wondered whether the factory might have made the fiberglas portion of the seat and the cushion which exactly matched the other C-Dory cushions and shipped them loose for the dealer to install. All of this is what makes me suspect that there might be other C-Dorys out there with similar cockpit seats whether it was a dealer or factory option.

I too was surprised by the extent of the core issues but the extent was determined first by moisture meter and then by 1/2" core samples before the upper laminate was cut away, core removed and replaced and the top laminate redone. One thing that may have contributed to the extent of the damage is that the boat was on a lift 12 months of the year and never covered. This allowed continuous "moisturization" and the area where the boat was located was subject to freezing. Mike, you may need to Google for a definition of freezing!!! LOL! It is possible that the freezing of the wet core caused some delamination which contributed to the areal spread of the damage. The sockets were at least 1 1/2" deep and their top was flush with the upper laminate of the sole. You are absolutely correct that there was not a need to penetrate the floorboards let alone the sole. A leg with a rubber crutch tip with a washer inside it could have rested on the floorboards and done the job. I suspect that a socket was part of the design and then someone decided that having a socket stand proud of the floorboards 13 inches forward of the fuel tanks would be a tripping hazzard.

At any rate, the problems in the sole have been properly repaired.

BTW Mike, I have very much enjoyed your recent trip to the Keys.

Jim

[Rob & Karen]

There are definitely other boats out there with the same bench seat.

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=5644&highlight=rear+bench+seat

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=1833&highlight=rear+bench+seat

[Sea Wolf]

Here's a photo for easy viewing:



And a LINK to the full set of photos in the BlueCrab / Lizzie Ann Album.

I don't think this is a very commonly installed option.

Joe.

[mcc272]

Rob & Karen --
I checked the links you posted and indeed, there are two boats with largely identical seats -- Levity and Lizzie Ann. These are described as the "factory bench seat" and as the "bench seat installed by the dealer." Based on the geographic locations, I suspect these boats were delivered by the same dealer that delivered my boat. Lizzie Ann is the same year as my boat. There is a clear photo in their album that shows the seat and the legs. Their lower leg installation is very different than mine and very proper in their case as the lower legs have crutch tips and do not penetrate the floor boards, let alone the sole. For Levity, I can't quite see enough of the floorboards in the pictures to see if they have the holes in them but the seat is idential to mine otherwise.

I have no clue why the lower legs were done on my boat the way they were but the installation was clearly improper in that it caused serious problems. The damage has been properly repaired and the seat went in a dumpster.

Jim

[blackfish]

Hi Jim

I was wondering did you do the repair work yourself ?
and did you take any pics.

thanks Dave

[mcc272]

Dave --
This time I did not do the work on the cockpit sole myself although I have done similar work previously on other boats I have owned. I bought the C-Dory and had it stored on the hard at a very good yard south of Annapolis since I had to order my trailer, wait for its arrival and find a time to go pick up the boat on a weekday. Since the temps were good down there for epoxy work and I knew that I would not get it up here until nearly November and then be facing cold weather issues and since I knew the yard to be very good, I had them do the work on the sole. The other reason I had the yard do the work is that I have a huge list of things to do on the boat which does not have a galley or a water system. I will be redoing the interior cabinetry and a complete water system from tank to sink overboard discharge as well as a Wallas stove/heater, a complete set of good electronics, a radar arch and a bunch of other things. The problem is that every time I scroll through the C-Brat albums, I find more modifications I just absolutely need to make to the boat! The problem is that our fellow Brats are as talented as they are creative. If I want to be boating next summer, I could not afford the 1 month plus delay while the boat just sat. As a result, I do not have pictures. I am handling the repair of the floor boards. I have dug out a lot of the core and will let them dry out for a couple of months in my garage before continuing. The work in the sole in not really all that difficult. Probably the hardest part would have been getting a reasonable match on the gel coat color. I also had the yard repair all the holes across the front of the motor well from the piano hinge and match that gel coat. Today, you can find no evidence of those holes. All the work was superbly handled.

If you have not seen this type of core repair, the best description I know about is by Bob Austin (Thataway) in his past posts and great photos of the process in his album. Bob and I have corresponded about these issues and we both agree that the fantastic thing about the C-Dory is that this type of problem is emminently repairable with a resulting boat that is better than new.

Jim

[Papillon]

Jim,
I am sorry, but I didn't mention that I had a rear bench seat in my 22 Angler. I wasn't sure I had any pictures but I kept digging and came up with this one. It doesn't show a lot of the seat but it sure is a good photo of my grandson enjoying the conforts of home while on the water.

My seat came out of a 28' Proline that a friend owns. it is two pieces with 4 legs. the base seats are made of starboard and hang on brackets that are mounted on the splash well and the legs fold down. The seats can be removed for easy access to the fuel tanks. The backrest, my wife Judy made to match.

[mcc272]

Mike --

That is a great picture. Your crew certainly seems to be enjoying time aboard!

Your seat seems a good, comfortable solution. I decided that I did not want to give up as much of the cockpit as my seat consumed and to get to the fuel tanks, you needed to slide underneath it. Removing it required removing many small machine screws holding the seat to the piano hinge.

Jim