The C-Brats Forum Index
HomeForumsMy TopicsCalendarEvent SignupsMemberlistOur C-DorysThe Brat MapPhotos

Pilot Responsibility? (Warning: Not C-Dory related)

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> Seamanship
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Casey



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 1094
City/Region: The Villages(FL)
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: "Dessert 1st"
Photos: Dessert 1st
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:42 am    Post subject: Pilot Responsibility? (Warning: Not C-Dory related) Reply with quote

Warning: This is not C-Dory related, but I beg your indulgence and thoughts.

We are partners in a British shipping venture. Earlier in February one of our vessels was being piloted into a (British) port. The pilot ran the 89m vessel into a jetty causing several thousand pounds worth of damage (...the jetty wasn't damaged very much, and yes, the vessel's Master was on the bridge). (Reminds me of the joke about the USN warship and the lighthouse - but that's another story.)

My question relates to what (if any) responsibility marine pilots have for negligence on their part. (Maneuvering a vessel into a fixed jetty seems a bit negligent at first blush). It presents an interesting conundrum: ports often require commercial vessels to employ pilots, but I'm learning those same pilots probably have no liability for accidents. I find that difficult to believe.

I understand this probably involves admiralty law and British regulation/practice, but I'm trying to learn from the experience.

Given the breadth of experience throughout the C-Brat community I look forward to hearing your comments, and opinions. Also ... if you have any references or places I can research this topic more fully I'd really like to look into it.

Thanks,
Casey
C-Dory Naknek
The Villages, FL
Lake Montezuma, AZ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
matt_unique



Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 1881
City/Region: Boston
State or Province: MA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Napoleon
Photos: Napoleon
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:42 am    Post subject: Re: Pilot Responsibility? (Warning: Not C-Dory related) Reply with quote

Casey wrote:
Warning: This is not C-Dory related, but I beg your indulgence and thoughts.

We are partners in a British shipping venture. Earlier in February one of our vessels was being piloted into a (British) port. The pilot ran the 89m vessel into a jetty causing several thousand pounds worth of damage (...the jetty wasn't damaged very much, and yes, the vessel's Master was on the bridge). (Reminds me of the joke about the USN warship and the lighthouse - but that's another story.)

My question relates to what (if any) responsibility marine pilots have for negligence on their part. (Maneuvering a vessel into a fixed jetty seems a bit negligent at first blush). It presents an interesting conundrum: ports often require commercial vessels to employ pilots, but I'm learning those same pilots probably have no liability for accidents. I find that difficult to believe.

I understand this probably involves admiralty law and British regulation/practice, but I'm trying to learn from the experience.

Given the breadth of experience throughout the C-Brat community I look forward to hearing your comments, and opinions. Also ... if you have any references or places I can research this topic more fully I'd really like to look into it.

Thanks,
Casey
C-Dory Naknek
The Villages, FL
Lake Montezuma, AZ


I think this is indeed a case for research into British admiralty law but in the U.S. the Master has the ultimate responsibility even over Harbor Pilot's. While they are required to use a Harbor Pilot (based on tonnage and cargo) the Master has the legal authority and responsibility to interrupt the commands of a Harbor Pilot if they feel the vessel is in danger.

I too find it hard to believe a Harbor Pilot would not be liable for damages if they made a mistake. If not by law at the VERY LEAST a civil suit from the company that owns the ship and possibly the local government if environmental damage occurs.

The Harbor Pilot's are the highest paid Captain's in Boston and I suspect any major port. They are required to have an Unlimited Tonnage Oceans license and the apprentice program lasts many years. Boston has 10 and they are paid up to a quarter mil a year. They MUST have insane insurance policies to do that kind of work. I would certainly want the largest umbrella policy I could afford if I were doing that kind of work.

_________________
Captain Matt
Former owner of Napoleon (Tomcat) Hull #65 w/Counter Rotating Suzuki 150's.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Captains Cat



Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 7313
City/Region: Cod Creek>Potomac River>Chesapeake Bay
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Captain's Choice II
Photos: Captain's Cat
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same way in the USN too, Matt. The Captain of the ship (Master in your case) holds the ultimate responsibility. The only time that isn't the case, is when the bow of the ship crosses the sill into a drydock. Then, the shipyard is responsible. Of course, the USN is a "self insurer" so we don't get many claims!

I'm sure this will be a complicated case! Disgust

Charlie

_________________
CHARLIE and PENNY CBRAT #100
Captain's Cat II 2005 22 Cruiser
Thataway (2006 TC255 - Sold Aug 2013)
Captain's Cat (2006 TC255 - Sold January 2012)
Captain's Kitten (1995 CD 16 Angler- Sold June 2010)
Captain's Choice (1994 CD 22 Cruiser- Sold Jun 2007)
Potomac River/Chesapeake Bay
K4KBA
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> Seamanship All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
     Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Page generation time: 0.0319s (PHP: 57% - SQL: 43%) - SQL queries: 21 - GZIP disabled - Debug on