22' or 25'?

[moabarch]

Hello everyone,
I've been signed up with your group now for 5 minutes and am I hope my "rookie" questions aren't a bother. I won't bore you with our life stories, but my wife and I figure it's time to see the world by boat - at least small parts of it - Prince William Sound, Lake Powell, Pacific Northwest (where I grew up).

We would like input as to whether we should be looking primarily at a 22' or 25' cruiser. Here are our thoughts:
1) we do want the ability to spend several weeks on the boat. While we are used to small campers on land, we are getting a little older and like to be a bit more comfortable than we used to, so we're just not sure about the 22. Who can comment on spending that much time on a 22?
2) We will be towing the boat a lot (ie, from lower 48 to Alaska, from Moab to Pacific Northwest). We have a one ton Duramax for this.
3) fuel economy is obviously important nowadays
4) As to cost of the boat, as long as we got a reasonable deal on whichever size we end up with, we could deal with it.

I guess the obvious answer is that it depends on our priorities in these matters, so the best help I could get from folks is comments on extended stays on a 22'. I think it's obvious that a 25 would be more comfortable. Any other things to consider? Thanks very much in advance.

We very well may show up at the launch for the Lake Powell trip this fall just to look at the boats - there ain't no dealers in Moab!

[Grumpy]

Tom and Nancy,

We recently sold our 22 which we absolutley loved for the simple reason that we (me particulalry) are a bit "motionally challenged" and arthritic and the nightly process of climbing on hands and knees into and out of the bunk space was too much for us. You can get around this for one person by doing the dinette to bunk conversion each night (pain) but it still leaves the issue of the Porta-Potty under the forward bunk.
Even this can be eased by cockpit cover and privacy curtains but it is rather less than ideal.

The 25 is certainly better in both those respects but I will leave that to others with more direct experience to comment.

It really is a very personal choice and hard to make until you have tried it and seen how the detail logistics work out in the real world which is not a nice warm showroom with nothing else on the boat. Only thing I can suggest is you both try it (at the same time) and imagine that you have had to move all the "stuff" that occupies the bunk during the daytime and clear the dinette area.

Hope this helps,

Merv & Kathy

[dotnmarty]

Welcome aboard. I would suggest you begin your search by reading Bill and El's 'Halcyon Days' www.geocities.com/bill_fiero about life on a 22 footer, and then Jim Bathurst's thread on the Cruising Adventures of Wild Blue http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=5212&start=0
about life on a 25 footer with a blond and a cat. Then go to the gathering and take a ride on each boat. Then read the threads about tow vehicles. Then go mountain biking around Moab. You sure do live in a beautiful place! Good luck.

[moabarch]

Wow, two thoughtful and helpful replies in only minutes.....I can't wait to be an active member of your group! Gotta get that boat first...

[Grumpy]

Don't worry you will get more opinions than you ever thought possible. This really is the best support group you could wish for.

BTW please don't take my earlier post as negative, just that we are not so well organized as some people so we travel with two kitchen sinks!!

Merv

[moabarch]

That input was in no way negative.You sound a bit like us, I guess. Always too much stuff and not enough room! Don't know if we could cut down or not!

[JamesTXSD]

Welcome aboard Tom and Nancy,

Your question comes up frequently on this forum. As Marty mentioned, we have spent a lot of time onboard our CD-25 Wild Blue... no where near as much as Bill and El on Halcyon (but they have a 6 year head start on us ). You will get plenty of advice here, since we all think we made the right choice.

I've said this plenty of times here, but the difference is much more than 3 feet and an enclosed head... the interior volume of the 25 is a LOT more than the 22. For us, the choice came down to storage and elbow room. Having hot water on demand is a big plus for comfort, so the enclosed head with a shower on the 25 gets a lot of discussion. Joan and I have worked, played, motorcycle camped, RVed, sailed (and now C-Doryed) together all our adult lives. The transition into the boat was pretty easy for us, but it was a buying decision we made together. When we went to the Seattle Boat Show to see one of these boats, I was thinking 22... she said, "25"... 25 it is. Having spent much of the past two years on this boat, I don't think we would have been as happy or comfortable on the 22. But, that is our situation - many folks find the 22 to be just right.

The upfront cost will be more for the 25, you will burn more fuel, you need a bigger tow vehicle (which you have covered). In return, you will have more room, more storage, more boat (by about a ton +) which makes for a more solid ride in my opinion. We have no trouble launching, retrieving or towing.

Of course, the best course of action would be to visit a dealer or a C-Brat gathering to see these two boats up close and personal. See how people are really using the boats. Bill and El are minimalists and the 22 is the perfect fit for them (and plenty of others). We like having more than 3 outfits onboard... cold and warm weather gear... a travel guitar and some electronic entertainment... and as Marty mentioned: room for Molly the Cat.

Sitting in a boat for a few minutes doesn't tell you everything... have the Mrs. stand at the galley while you move around her. Picture using the potty in the middle of the night. Imagine where all your stuff will go... Joan is an outstanding packer and has to have order. I did not want to have to move stuff every night to go to bed and didn't want to convert the dinette... and that works fine for us in the 25. The v-berth is comfortable for us, and I can get up before the Blonde, fire up the Wallas, start some coffee, get the cat fed, and not disturb her. We love the fridge and can easily provision for a couple weeks and not have to always be on a search for ice. We also carry a Honda generator onboard so we can generate our own power when we want. All that stuff takes space, but makes our time onboard more "home-like" and comfortable for us.

Either boat can be ideal. It just depends on the level of comfort and the amount of personal space you both require. Go too small, and trips become an endurance situation instead of fun. Go too big, and you are spending more than is necessary. Either of us can singlehand the 25, so we have never found it to be more boat than is easy. Experience is the best teacher, and I can say that our experience has been that we haven't wished for a smaller boat since we bought Wild Blue.

If something catastrophic happened to our boat, we would certainly buy another 25 'cause it fits our traveling style. Feel free to ask any questions or drop me a PM... most of us here went through that same angst about "the right boat" and the fine folks on this forum were a great help to us.

Good luck with your decision!

Best wishes,
Jim B.

[journey on]

We've spent 2 summers on Journey On, a C-25. The first was in the San Juans, Desolation Sound, etc. the second was in the Great Lakes. Our travel Log is here: Journey On Travels. Judy wrote the travel aspect, and gives a lot of detail on camping in a C-25. I threw in some comments on the boat.

Bill and El love camping on a C-22, but the indoor toilet and added space of a C-25 is what makes it livable for us. We've learned to cruise at 7 knts and get >4 mpg over the summer. If you have family and grandkids, the C-25 room comes in handy. We're both "mature" and need some comfort.

Towing is OK, but it's not as small as the C-22. Your truck is overkill for either boat, so that's not a discriminator.

Boris

[Pat Anderson]

Or, to really complicate things, you could look at the 2007 Tomcat that Master Marine has for $115,000 - not that much more than a well-equipped CD25! We are with Jim on the CD22 - CD22 - Bill and El (and yes, you really have to read Halcyon Days website!) have had their son and grandson on their CD22 for extended cruises. It can be done. But then they can do 17 countries in six weeks with one pair of underpants! Here is unique perspective : grandson Bryce's!

[flapbreaker]

My guess is you would be happier with the 25' based on what you described about yourself. It's certainly doable on a 22' no doubt, however I think you will find it more "work".

[Cosmic C]

In about ten days, after participating in the Lankford gathering, we'll begin the fifth and final leg of our Great Loop cruise in our CD25 Cosmic C. We have now traveled over 9000 miles in the C (nowhere near as far as Bill and El, but a goodly distance) and are still in love with the boat. It is just the right size for us; big enough to give us all the space we need for cruising, but small enough to be used as our everyday boat when we are on our island in the St Lawrence river. Towing is not an issue with us; we don't even own a trailer.

We found the CD22 a little small for cruising, and the Admiral did NOT want to deal with a portapotty. It might be a little more appropriate on the river, and a little more economical too, but every time we have the kids or visitors up, we're glad for the extra room in the CD25 there too. All in all the CD25 was the perfect choice for us.

[jennykatz]

Hi you guys should get down to Wefings in appalachicola fl. and rent their 25 ft c-dory they have a summer special $999 for 3-4 days give Marc a call . Then you will know if thats the right size Good Luck in your quest

[Sea Wolf]

moabarch-

Try reading this through discussion:

22 Cruiser vs. 25

Joe.

[moabarch]

I did read through that discussion - and thanks for referring me to it. I guess I could have saved folks some time if I'd dug around a little deeper in the forums. I'll learn! Anyway, thanks to all for the input. My wife says "25".
I can't argue with that - what good would it do anyway?

[jimandlaurie]

Welcome to the C-Brat Family Tom and Nancy! Tom you are on the right track....when the admiral speaks........We had a 22 and moved up to the 25 as several of us have done here. But if we would've been in the right situation for us we would've held out for a TC-255. That being said ,we really love our 25. It is a great choice, and there are some nice ones on the used market right now.